[mordy]

Hi h1,
 
My philosophy when approaching new tube families is to try several different varieties and try to figure what sounds the best in my system. Once I know what I want, I may splurge on an expensive new pair in pristine condition (nah, don't believe it) and pay top dollar (not true).
 
So for the price of a pair or two at the $250 price points I rather have two dozen tubes, even if it means that most of them are used and measure 60-85% if you can believe the sellers. It appears that I bought tubes from people whose fathers were repair men or collectors, and it seems that the stickers on the tubes with tube measurements were made some 30-40 years ago. Interesting, eh?
 
Here is a tube that arrived today. It was advertised as testing Good on a Funke W19 tester.
 

 
Did I take a chance? Yes. OK - around $21 shipped is better than $100 + shipping.
 
The tube survived shipping from Germany in a padded envelope with only a tight piece of cardboard wrapped around it. The pins were dirty and corroded. Took out my pen knife and gently scraped the pins - nice gold plating becomes evident. And I noticed that the base is a little loose. Oh well, but is it going to work?
 
Looking at the base there are two lower case letters in white: vk. Ah, June 1949.
 
Since the prices have shot up on the EL12 tubes I don't have another Telefunken at the moment (bought one previously, but DOA - got a full refund - no, DWM, meaning that it was Dead When Mailed out based on a worried email from the seller Yvonne), so I paired it with another nice looking taller tube - a Tungsram EL12 with code ECL on it, whatever that means.
 
Turning on the Elise - blue light on. Turning on the amp with speakers disconnected. Taking a deep breath, waiting a little. If something is going to pop or crackle when warming up, I don't want hear it. OK , now pushing in the button for the speakers - yep - it makes sound. Checking right and left; the 49ner TFK is working.
 
It sounds quite good together with the Tungsram with a pair of TFK EL11 from the same decade, as drivers.
 
The TFK EL12 has a very nice mid range and treble, but the Tungsram goes much deeper in the base.
 
Look at the picture above. It says gut but what was scribbled over above it? Does it really say EL12 on the tube?
 
Here is another picture - what do you think it is?
 

 
No - it is not an EL15 because there is no such tube. The EL13 (it does exist as a single tube) is tubular so that's not it. EL11? EL12? And why is the date on the picture from 2011?
 
I fully expect all my fellow "bastlers" to be able to answer all my questions....

 

[richdytch]

My journey with the EL12N continues. I'm getting very different results using different power amps between the Elise and my speakers. When using my Quad 909, the best combo so far is EL12N with 6SN7WGT, as I mentioned before. But with my Topping class D amp, EL12N/EL3N seems to rule. What sounds unpleasantly thin and edgy on the Quad seems remarkably rounded and smooth on the Topping. If I had to sum it up, it just sounds like there's excellent extension at the frequency extremes, with almost no discernable distortion or colouration in between. It's a very clear window. 

 

[angpsi]

It... works!!!....
 


My sincerest gratitude to @Frederick Rea for this is highly acceptable to my taste! Hum be gone!

 

[MIKELAP]

Hey guys if any of you are looking for C3G and  C3GS i am looking to sell this as a  bundle  Thanks for looking.    http://www.head-fi.org/t/839887/1-pair-siemens-c3g-and-3-siemens-c3gs

 

[hypnos1]

   
LOL 

These are MY tubes. I bought exactly those, I checked the picture in my ebay-account 

 

 

 
Hi HPL...at 72mA those should be real beauties lol!

...now it would appear you'll need to get those ferrite chokes suggested by @Frederick Rea, and used successfully now by @angpsi. Glorious sound awaits you!! 

 

...
 

  Hi h1,
 
My philosophy when approaching new tube families is to try several different varieties and try to figure what sounds the best in my system. Once I know what I want, I may splurge on an expensive new pair in pristine condition (nah, don't believe it) and pay top dollar (not true).
 
So for the price of a pair or two at the $250 price points I rather have two dozen tubes, even if it means that most of them are used and measure 60-85% if you can believe the sellers. It appears that I bought tubes from people whose fathers were repair men or collectors, and it seems that the stickers on the tubes with tube measurements were made some 30-40 years ago. Interesting, eh?
 
Here is a tube that arrived today. It was advertised as testing Good on a Funke W19 tester.
 

 
Did I take a chance? Yes. OK - around $21 shipped is better than $100 + shipping.
 
The tube survived shipping from Germany in a padded envelope with only a tight piece of cardboard wrapped around it. The pins were dirty and corroded. Took out my pen knife and gently scraped the pins - nice gold plating becomes evident. And I noticed that the base is a little loose. Oh well, but is it going to work?
 
Looking at the base there are two lower case letters in white: vk. Ah, June 1949.
 
Since the prices have shot up on the EL12 tubes I don't have another Telefunken at the moment (bought one previously, but DOA - got a full refund - no, DWM, meaning that it was Dead When Mailed out based on a worried email from the seller Yvonne), so I paired it with another nice looking taller tube - a Tungsram EL12 with code ECL on it, whatever that means.
 
Turning on the Elise - blue light on. Turning on the amp with speakers disconnected. Taking a deep breath, waiting a little. If something is going to pop or crackle when warming up, I don't want hear it. OK , now pushing in the button for the speakers - yep - it makes sound. Checking right and left; the 49ner TFK is working.
 
It sounds quite good together with the Tungsram with a pair of TFK EL11 from the same decade, as drivers.
 
The TFK EL12 has a very nice mid range and treble, but the Tungsram goes much deeper in the base.
 
Look at the picture above. It says gut but what was scribbled over above it? Does it really say EL12 on the tube?
 
Here is another picture - what do you think it is?
 

 
No - it is not an EL15 because there is no such tube. The EL13 (it does exist as a single tube) is tubular so that's not it. EL11? EL12? And why is the date on the picture from 2011?
 
I fully expect all my fellow "bastlers" to be able to answer all my questions....

 
Hi mordy.
 
Yes indeed, it's often a good idea to try out different tubes in one's own system by first looking for some reasonably priced used ones, and placing one's faith in luck lol! Either that, or do as @pctazhp did and take on trust others' findings and splash out straight away!!

 
The downside to the first approach is that if one is really unlucky and gets substandard tubes, then their full potential may well not be experienced and give an incorrect, negative impression. This has happened on more than one occasion even just with our amps alas!! I personally now prefer to stick with the safer option of going for what are more likely to be good, strong tubes...and not necessarily NOS - especially when others have already taken the risk of trialling them lol! 

This is where my - and @HOWIE13's - recent statements on this subject come in....trying to help steer folks through the minefield of certain tubes. But as H13 says, there are still no guarantees!! There is always this element of luck with tubes...no matter how much one pays...all we can hope for is to minimise bad luck LOL!

.
 
Re. your mystery tube... to me - and from your description of its performance - I suspect it is in fact an 11 and not a 12. I'm quite sure a TFK EL12 should be well up there in the bass stakes, in addition to those other areas you mentioned. And if it is meant to be a 12, then that lower performance would possibly indicate a less-than-ideal tube, as I referred to previously

...(have seen too many tubes listed as "Gut" with very low readings indeed, I'm afraid, and not even worth $20 alas!

).

 

[mordy]

Hi h1,
 
It appears that you are confirming my suspicion that this is an EL11 tube and not an EL12. Is there any way to tell apart a TFK EL11 from a TFK EL12?
 
There is a definitively a difference in the sound of this tube compared to the EL12 when listening to each channel individually. The sound stage is not completely centered, but easily corrected by moving the balance control a drop. (Possible an effect of mixing EL12 at 1.2A with EL11 at 0.9A?) However, since the bass is non directional, the two of them sound pretty good together.
 
But I need a TFK EL12.... Don't know what to tell the seller to convince them that the tube was misrepresented. Any suggestions?
 
 
ATM listening to a very famous tune that sounds great with a great sound stage - wonder if the sound has been enhanced?
 
Sing Sing Sing with Benny Goodman:
 
 

 

[hypnos1]

  Hi h1,
 
It appears that you are confirming my suspicion that this is an EL11 tube and not an EL12. Is there any way to tell apart a TFK EL11 from a TFK EL12?
 
There is a definitively a difference in the sound of this tube compared to the EL12 when listening to each channel individually. The sound stage is not completely centered, but easily corrected by moving the balance control a drop. (Possible an effect of mixing EL12 at 1.2A with EL11 at 0.9A?) However, since the bass is non directional, the two of them sound pretty good together.
 
But I need a TFK EL12.... Don't know what to tell the seller to convince them that the tube was misrepresented. Any suggestions?
 
 
ATM listening to a very famous tune that sounds great with a great sound stage - wonder if the sound has been enhanced?
 
Sing Sing Sing with Benny Goodman:
 
 

 
Hi m...I'm afraid I haven't yet been able to discern any obvious physical differences between the TFK EL11 and 12, more's the pity! But given the 12 has double the power output, this could well explain the channel imbalance. But then, that could simply be down to different (same-) tube strengths! Then again, the degree of difference in sound would add to the "different tube" argument.
 
Unfortunately, an "awkward" vendor could easily choose to ignore such factors if he so wished, and not feel obliged to give you satisfaction...

. The best course of action - as always in such a case - is to try to at least appeal to their good nature... through polite, informed statement of concerns/questions, and hope they do the decent thing! (If the vendor has a test machine, his figures - bearing in mind that the EL11 should likely be based on 36mA being 100% - could well give a clue lol!

). GOOD LUCK!...

 

[HPLobster]

  It... works!!!....

My sincerest gratitude to @Frederick Rea for this is highly acceptable to my taste! Hum be gone!

 
 

   
Hi HPL...at 72mA those should be real beauties lol!

...now it would appear you'll need to get those ferrite chokes suggested by @Frederick Rea, and used successfully now by @angpsi. Glorious sound awaits you!! 

 

...

 
Absolutely! 

 But what inner diameter do they have? 

 Amazon sells tons of different sizes and I can´t seem to find @Frederick Rea ´s post...

 

[HOWIE13]

   
 
 
Absolutely! 

 But what inner diameter do they have? 

 Amazon sells tons of different sizes and I can´t seem to find @Frederick Rea ´s post...

 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01E5ALVWQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
The 3mm internal diameter is still a bit big, but is the smallest I could source, so, like angpsi, I just filled up the space with a bit of kitchen foil.

 

[HPLobster]

   
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01E5ALVWQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
The 3mm internal diameter is still a bit big, but is the smallest I could source, so, like angpsi, I just filled up the space with a bit of kitchen foil.

 
Perfect, just ordered them!
The EL-adapters are still in Hongkong if I were to believe tracking.... Anticipation is the greatest joy! 

 
 

 

[angpsi]

Hi HPLobster and HOWIE13, mine are a 5mm inner diameter just because that was all I could find readily available at the electronics shop. I wonder whether more ferrite makes a difference compared to the 3mm choke. Probably not, but worth pointing out nevertheless (for the benefit of scientific research, as always)!

 

[HPLobster]

Thank you very much @angpsi 

Haha, we have now officially reached the summit of audiophile lunacy

 Talking about how the inner diameter of ferrite chokes influences sound within the system 

 
Hmmm..... maybe I will order both sizes and A/B them... 

.
.
.
.
.

 

 

[HOWIE13]

Hi @HPLobster and @HOWIE13, mine are a 5mm inner diameter just because that was all I could find readily available at the electronics shop. I wonder whether more ferrite makes a difference compared to the 3mm choke. Probably not, but worth pointing out nevertheless (for the benefit of scientific research, as always)!

I wouldn't ponder on it if it's quiet. That buzz was so loud if it's gone it's gone, whatever the size of the diameter. YIPPEE!!!!

 

 

[Frederick Rea]

Feel very happy that you all could use this idea, with satisfactory results. And thank you all for your help to make me achieve this quality in SOUND with the work that has been done here
 
Have another one, that I use for a long time, with good results as well:
 
The only condition is that it must be with metalic feet on Elise (I did it with Ceraball, but could be done with any metalic feet)
 
Antistatic Dissipative Mat with Grounding Cord

1. Material: PVC
2. Dimensions: 50 x 60cm
3. Thickness: 2mm
4. Surface resistance: 10e7 10e10Ohm / m²
5. Charge Cooldown: <0.03sec.

 

You could cut the mate to the size you need and link the mate to a ground point (other than chassis)
 
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B001IRVCJM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[DecentLevi]

From the Euforia thread
 
Quote:

  Hi everyone ! Glad to read of everyone's utopia moments with their Elise and tubes. I've no doubt you are enjoying yourselves very much. 

 
As for me, I've been mesmerised for 2 days by my 'odd ball', East German and Russian EF86 with Chatham 6520. Totally speechless. 

  I've haven't touch my EL tubes for 2 days haha.

 
A more detailed post will have to wait till this evening when I'm back from work.  Any conventional power tubes will do. Both EF80 and EF86 worked very well. Clean and detailed sound with a touch of fullness and quality bass that is the trademark of pentodes driven as strapped triodes. 
 

 
I would be interested especially in seeing in what ways you find these different from the other EL11 / 12's that you've tried? Also have you tried any 'Spez'-ials yet?